champagne is a great leveleler...
my feelings on Clark/Lex 
23rd/Sep/2005 | 01:28 pm
purple sunset
What is it with me and writing controversial stories? LOL. I posted this story last night, and two people not only disagree with it, but vehemently disagree with it. And ya know, cool, cause I enjoy a debate. And it's also kind of awesome to get comments that aren't just "liked it" (which isn't to say I don't like those comments as well). People tend to shy away from disagreeing in public with an author, they're more likely to just not comment at all.

However, it does point out a problem that seems to consistently happen with me in this fandom, and that is people not really knowing where I'm coming from. The story is about Lex and Clark and the inevitable rift, wherein Lex blames Clark, Clark feels guilty, and it's told from Clark's POV. Since it is told in Clark's pov, I don't get to be objective. I don't get to show Lex's inner thoughts or postulate about his warring emotions. I don't get to pull back and narrate about how they're BOTH wrong, both right, and both idiots. LOL.

So when Lex blames Clark, and Clark feels guilty about it, and that's all you see me having written, some people come away with the thought that I think Clark is to blame and Lex is the innocent. When really, what it is, is that I think Lex WOULD verbally blame Clark. Because of the point of view, I don't get to show that he blames himself as well, that he's saying this with the express purpose of hurting Clark, that he's being vindictive one final time before shutting the door on the friendship. And, also because of the point of view, while Clark feels guilty, and does let Lex manipulate him into feeling perhaps overly so, I don't get to show that yes, it partially IS his fault, but no... it's not ALL his fault. Because I'm coming at it from Clark's pov, and he has a MASSIVE guilty complex.



Yes. I do blame Clark. There are things he has done wrong. There are even things I feel are unforgivable. Shattered/Asylum for one. Memoria for two. The way he only ever comes to Lex's house when he wants something. The way he ends and starts a conversation with "Lex, I need a favor" more often than not. Clark has an apparent inability to accept responsibility for his actions... which, yes, is in keeping with his age. Even though he doesn't have a lot of choices, even though he is RIGHT to not tell his secret, he does need to accept that his lies, however necessary they are, his actions, they have consequences. He IS responsible for those, even if he was FORCED into making those decisions, even if he's not at FAULT for having to make them. He IS responsible.

If you are the head of an army, and you fight a war, and an innocent civilian dies because they got in the way of the bomb you were dropping on the most dangerous man on the opposing side... Is that your fault? Maybe not. But you ARE responsible for it.


And yes, I do think Clark is partially to blame for Lex's eventual downfall. I'm sorry, people, but this is how this particular show at this particular time is writing it. Look at it from Lex's point of view, and what you have is yet another person lying to him, repeatedly, over and over. What you have is someone who he thought could be the one person who actually loved him and STAYED, the one relationship to not be tarnished, constantly casting blaming eyes in his direction, even when he HASN'T done anything wrong. What you have is someone that, for whatever (valid, yes, it is valid) reason, doesn't trust him with his secrets. And Lex, honestly, can't be blamed when that pisses him off. Would me too. He's done a lot for Clark (and yes, against him as well) and Clark doesn't seem to remember that.

But do I think it's Clark's fault? No. No, no, and again no. Lex has had a lifetime of hurt that's lead him to this moment. A mother who died to early, a brother who was killed by his mother to protect Lex. A father who's love for him, if it's even there, is severely twisted and skewed and fucked up. His mother's helper (Pamela?) who loved him like a mother, whom he loved like a mother, who abandoned him (only to find out later that she did it because Lionel bribed her). Hurt after hurt after hurt after hurt. And I can't help but think that Lex would have been okay if he'd never met Clark. If he'd gone on to become hardened and bitter without this beacon of light and good that Clark represented. And that doesn't mean it's Clark's fault, it just means that whole thing of "I didn't know what I was missing till I had it." And then, Clark took it away.

Point being that, if Clark were the first person (or, even just one of a few, instead of the many) to hurt (intentionally or not) Lex, this would not push him over the edge. That Clark is the latest, and most painful? Yes. Yes, I do believe that Clark is that proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

But. And here's where the confusion comes in sometimes. Do I think Lex would blame Clark? Yes. At least verbally. Inside, in his head, he may know that he's being ridiculous to blame Clark. In the back of his head he may know he's being unfair. But do I think he'd throw Clark's downfalls in his face? Absolutely. I fully believe Lex can be a catty, vindictive bitch when he wants to be. And that's what that fic was. Him manipulating Clark, blaming Clark for the sole purpose of making Clark feel bad, to make Clark hurt. Regardless of whether or not he believes Clark is solely at fault, regardless of whether he's aware of his OWN hypocrisy... I think that's what he would do.

But, being that I told it from Clark's pov, it's kind of hard to convey that. I just had to infer it, and hope it was read that way. Which, apparently, to some it wasn't.. LOL. Oh well. I can only do my best.

And I gotta say? When the commercial for Smallville came on and said "what you've been waiting to see" and then immediately jumpcut to Lex hitting Clark? They were right on the money as far as I was concerned. I've been WAITING for Lex to get fed up with Clark's propensity to be sanctimonious (I blame that on Jonathon, the king on how to be sanctimonious and wrong at the same time [ though I adore him to bits, my little Jonathon] ) and just fuckin' let him have it. LOL.

Because that's part of the hypocrisy of Clark. He sees things so black and white, except when it comes to himself. He has this "but it's not my fault" mentality. And when Lex does something untoward, when anyone does something not completely right, Clark's so "disappointed." So "betrayed." So "let down." Except, he fucks up too, damnit. But, ya know, that's completely plausible, and it reads very true to me because he is only 17 or 18, so that probably is exactly how he'd act/feel about it.

I'm just tired of Lex being hurt by Clark's judgementalism and sitting there and just... taking it. I want his balls back. The way he is with Lionel. Come on, Lex. Grow a pair back and tell him the fuck off! He kind of got there last season, started saying things Clark wasn't ready to hear... Like in Jinx about Lana. But I want more.
Comments 
23rd/Sep/2005 | 07:38 pm (UTC)
[info]elandrialore and I had touched on some of this just the other day. For me the best part of SV is getting to see how the Lex we love becomes the Luthor everyone hates. I would imagine it is not difficult once you see all the shit he has to go through! He gets used and abused by everyone he knows! Like I told [info]elandrialore, it makes me want to defend supervillian Lex: "I know he tried to kill a large number of people, but he just really needs a hug."

I Clark irritates the crap out of me, feeling so guilty about the meteor mutants, but never any guilt towards Lex!! And it's not like you can't see everything written on his face (due to MR's fabulous performance) - hurt, rage, betrayal, etc. Remember when he told truth-serum Chloe that he just wanted his Dad to love him!! (Unless of course, it is similar to how soap opera stars talk aloud to themselves about their evil plans and no one ever overhears it. Dramatic immunity maybe - that it is just for us, never for them.)

Once again this comment has gotten out of control. I should never write anything during my afternoon coffee buzz.
26th/Sep/2005 | 06:57 am (UTC)
[info]elandrialore and I touched on this too a few months back. LOL. And man, yeah, he really does just need a hug. For nothing. Just a hug for no reason at all. Just cause we love you, Lex. Poor Lexi.

And yeah, Clark can irritate the crap out of me, but i love him too. LOL. It's very mixmatch... some moments I"m all "Aww, Clarky" and others I'm all "FUCK YOU CLARK! AND YOUR FUCKING HIGH HORSE!"

And rambling comments are always welcome at the House of Ramble (aka, my house)
23rd/Sep/2005 | 07:50 pm (UTC)
Thank you.

It all makes sense now (about your fic, I mean)

I could argue with you about many of the things you say up there, but it would be long and probably wouldn't make a big difference to either of us.

I respect your point of view, that I mostly don't share. I respect you as a writer. I really enjoyed one of your last fics. Oh, well, you can't enjoy everything!

I'm a Clark lover; you are a Lex lover. Like our characters, we'll have our agreements and our disagreements.

I'm glad you too feel that respectfully discussing about something is better than just saying. "Wow, great", or something of the sort. I always give honest feedback, unless a writer doesn't want it. If that's the case, I just keep my opinions to myself.

Nice to meet you. I hope there'll be more stories by you that I'll be able to enjoy.

26th/Sep/2005 | 06:59 am (UTC)
Yeah, I think we're just at am impass. Cause I've pretty well laid out all my feelings there, so we either agree or don't. LOL. It's all gravy, no one said everyone had to agree on everything.

Just don't think I don't love Tom/Clark. I do. I looooove Clark. But, the kid can irk me somethin' fierce. LOL. And Tom is just beautiful and gorgeous, and he's gotten so good as an actor over the past 4 years.

23rd/Sep/2005 | 07:52 pm (UTC)

> People tend to shy away from disagreeing in public with an author,..
ah, Kelly, you are not just "an author" for me (anymore) , but a *friend* and someone I hope, will be topple Elandria from her throne *g*...LOL

> I don't get to pull back and narrate about how they're BOTH wrong, both right, and both idiots. LOL.
I could not agree for more!!!! they are BOTH idiots, thats why we probably love them so much, they being less idiots, and you could not write these fics, coz we would watch the show...

> Because I'm coming at it from Clark's pov, and he has a MASSIVE guilty complex.
I am not really sure, if Clark really has that massive guilt-ridden thing going on, taken into account that he rather prefers to blame Lex

> they have consequences. He IS responsible for those, even if he was FORCED into making those decisions, even if he's not at > FAULT for having to make them. He IS responsible.

for Clarks actions and lies, you already know my stance on this, I think not only does Clark HAS the right to lie, but more then fully entitled. Because of his hugeness of his secret, and no matter what Lex has done in the past for him, does justifies or shows, that Clark can trust Lex.
And equally the other way round. Lex has lied to Clark and has the right to do so. why should he not??
Has Clark proved himself to be any other then more often then not, that he is not taken responsiblity for his actions.
They should both just accept that they lie, and cannot trust each other, and should just shut up, and kiss, and try to live together without filling each others with their lies or the blames.

they should both accept their hypocrisys!
It infuriates me without end , that they both seemed to be rightous in their own way.

> Because that's part of the hypocrisy of Clark.
And part of the hypocrisy of Lex is, that he has always put clark on a pedestal.
Its so very convenient for him, to put all the blame on to clark, coz, OMG; clark is supposed it be perfect in Lex eyes, right??? and if he is not, then he gets the blame.
In his own world, Lex lives in shades of grey, but coming to Clark, its suddenly so black and white.
Because Lex wants to believe somewhere deep inside, that there should be s.o. like clark exists, who can redeem him.
Only that this is not Clarks task, or the reason of his existence (well at least outside of fanon and fictions).


> But I want more.
from the show?? ah, sorry, I do not believe in the show, so rather then allowing them to hurt , I do not expect anything from either Almiles or the show.
23rd/Sep/2005 | 08:06 pm (UTC)
Here is the deal IMO with Clex. Lex would have gone the Lionel route Clark or no Clark, but is is the relationship w/Clark that, hurt that pushes him to surpass even Lionel's evil. As for Clark his guilt drives him and you just can't see shades of grey when you are trying to apologize to the world for your existence. But I think they need to fight each other, or else they would destroy themselves.
26th/Sep/2005 | 07:00 am (UTC)
I think you're somewhat right. Yeah, Lex would have gone in his father's path with or without Clark... but there's a chance he could have NOT gone in his father's path if Clark had just... I don't know. Been a true friend? LOL. But yeah... thanks to Clark, Lex has even more fuel to add to ana lready raging fire.
26th/Sep/2005 | 01:33 pm (UTC)
You know the funny thing is I think there is a pert of Clark that doesn't want Lex to be good. I think he's attracted the darkness in Lex yet afraid ogf it at the same time. I feel a big part of the attraction is you live out the side of me that I'm afraid to show. I think that goes both ways but is a bigger part of it for Clark, and much as I love to read about them living happily ever after. I think that their happiness would eventually expire.They need the tension between them to keep from self-destructing. It's a co-depency that becomes greater as time goes on. I guess I just like to think of them as doomed.
23rd/Sep/2005 | 09:38 pm (UTC)
Damn. Amen, sistah. I totally get where you're coming from on point of view, and I trust your Lex, as well as the show's, to be deep enough to say one thing and be thinking another. As you said, it's all about POV.

But your comments are dead on. They're both screwing up in this relationship, but we all expect Lex to, because we've been told from Day 1 that he was evil, and because we know he's going to be evil. But it is Clark's fault, at least in part, and I think that's a fantastic, realistic move on the show's part. In no way do I feel that this is a shipper's opinion; I think it's being pointed out in the show as well, quite clearly.

Clark is a kid, and I'm glad you mentioned that. He's been told his whole life to keep this a secret, to lie, to cover up. He thinks he's doing the right thing, and in a way, he is. But as you said, he has to grow up enough to realize that perhaps it was for the greater good, but he islying. There are consequences to those lies, and life is not fair, and he has to face those repercussions.

I suppose the reason it all hurts so much is that it's so achingly real. No one is being a Bad Guy in this situation. Other ones, yes, I think Lex is moving down that path. But Lex is only doing what he feels is right, and he is right, and Clark is only doing what he's been told is right, and what probably is right, and it's not working. It should. Life should work so that when two people both do what's right, things turn out well for them. But they don't.

Mutter stupid rift mutter.
26th/Sep/2005 | 07:02 am (UTC)
Yeah, I do have to say I"m glad the shows not making it all black and white. Lex = Evil and Clark = Good. They both have elements of both in them, and I think that was a good, realistic choice for them to make.

I just... I wish they'd give us some sex first. LOL! But that's the slasher in me talking.
23rd/Sep/2005 | 10:14 pm (UTC)
I thought your Lex voice (and your Clark voice, too, actually) was superb in the story, because I think this is EXACTLY how Lex would respond to Clark in this situation. Partly because I think nobody's totally good or totally bad in that relationship (or any real relationship), but because I think Lex would be too proud to behave in any other way.

Both of them have lied. Each of them has let the other down, in his own way. And I, too, get tired of Clark's sanctimonious assumption that he needs to show Lex the path of righteousness.

This is how real people fight. This is how *adults* fight.
26th/Sep/2005 | 07:03 am (UTC)
Thank you very much! And I thought so too, that th at's how Lex would react, or else I would have written it differently. LOL. And yes, that is why... Lex is too proud to be vulnerable in front of someone he doesn't feel trusts him or that he can trust. I wouldn't either, quite honestly.

This is exactly how real people fight. It sucks, but it's real.
24th/Sep/2005 | 05:33 am (UTC)
Will you marry me?
26th/Sep/2005 | 07:03 am (UTC)
Heeee. Of course!!!
24th/Sep/2005 | 12:23 pm (UTC)
And yes, I do think Clark is partially to blame for Lex's eventual downfall.

I've been saying this for two years (and boy, is my family sick of hearing me say it, lol - about as sick as I am of hearing my husband say 'Clark's only a teenager!' It's not a defense, IMO. I used to be one myself like a hundred years ago).

Anyway. I thought you wrote a great story. Wonderful 'Lex voice', and considering it was written in second person from Clark's POV, that was very well done.
26th/Sep/2005 | 07:04 am (UTC)
My family's not sick of hearing it, cause I don't say it to them., I keep my little obsessions to myself... and er, my livejournal. LOL.

Thanks very much, so happy uyou liked it, and took it for what I meant it to be.
24th/Sep/2005 | 07:35 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed your story and are sad that you feel you have to comment on it. That you have to explain it.

Its your story.

Even more sad is that your explanation is spot on "to what you wrote". It does not matter that a small number of readers don't get pov writing - you can write what you want in your journal. You can re-write and post the same story 60 times, playing with just one line as a writing exercise. It's your journal.

To then minimize the whole thing into "you like Lex, I like Clark" is beyond imagination.

The biggest problem in Smallville fandom is the one the writers of the show have created. Most people define evil in black and white terms, yet we have been presented with grey. Most people see heroes in black and white, again (because of his youth the same as the evil) we have been given grey.

Run with the "grey" - write what you want, explore what you want, grow as a writer. If that means some people dont enjoy that growth then that is their problem not yours. You do not need to justify your writing.
26th/Sep/2005 | 07:08 am (UTC)
Aw, thanks. It's not just that I felt I needed to explain it away, or make apologies for it. I think it's a good, strong, true story. And I did want to explain to those few that didn't see it for what it was what I intended. But it's also an interesting topic, discussing my qualms with Clark and Clark/Lex.

But yeah. I"m not out there to please anybody but me when I writ eit. I write things how I see th em, to be what I see as true to the characters... I'm absolutely ecstatic when other's like it, and i love it when they think I'm right, and it certainly fuels th e muse into writing more... But I'm not gonna let someone's differing opinion ever change how I think about my characters. I might let them explain it to me, and maybe htey'll make me see stuff in ADDITION to what I already perceive to be true, but... I"m not gonna change just cause other people like it.

And I'm glad they've made it gray... it makes it much more REAL. In real life, people aren 't all good or all bad (except in your rare cases like Dahmer and Manson, lol) they're usually an aculminatoin of everything, and certain traits prevail... But yeah. Gray is where the truth is.
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